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I am a beginning ESL teacher who is also learning Spanish. At a recent conversation group at a Latin American cafe, I spoke to a native Spanish speaker for about 10 minutes after an hour of struggling to converse with other non-native speakers. I felt I gained more in 10 minutes than I had in the preceding hour. This experience has caused me to question the value of classroom tasks in which ESL students speak to each other while the teacher largely remains silent - the method advocated in my teacher training course. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

This question is from Daniela Spadaro, Australia

Comments

Submitted on 18 March, 2008 - 08:03
Ray Adams, Brasil
With regard to the teacher remaining silent during a conversation class: I have been teaching English for 25 years. The BEST conversation class is when the teacher does not have to speak. The teacher is there to orientate the students. He/she should direct the students and correct when there are gross errors. There are many kinds of classes, but conversation classes should be free language, allowing the students to make mistakes. Students only learn when they make a mistake. If a student is given a task where they get everything right they are not learning anything. Every class should have something new so that the student learns. I am always looking for new ideas.

Tanja, Czech republic
When we take into account, that there are only few opportunities to speak English outside the classroom for a large number of students, we come to the conclusion, that speaking activities in the classroom are very important. They must be well organised and students should be sure, what they say and why.

Heath, China
Contrary to popular belief, most research shows that learners of a second language do NOT learn each others mistakes. The bulk of such research analyses these effects over the term of 10 week - 1 year courses, and may not be true over a longer period of time; but do go a long way to proving that pair work and group work have little or no downsides other than motivational ones.

Additionally, the argument could be said that a 1 to 1 class with a native teacher is most effective when compared with learner groupwork, but it is rarely the case that teachers get to choose between those two situations. More likely it is either groupwork or teacher speaking while group listens or teacher talks to one learner while the rest of the class listens. Mathematically, as we know, the best way to provide everyone speaking practice is therefore learner-learner interaction.

That's 2 reasons why TTT should be kept under control.

On the other hand, many experts have pointed out the clear advantages that input has over output. And although the debate continues, I would suggest that learners need about 70-85% input, and about 15-30% output. Text-books provide all the written work, and audio can provide a lot of oral work, but the teacher is one of the best sources of informal, natural, and highly-used language. I would suggest that teachers do in fact use plenty of personal anecdotes, daily functional language, and idiomatic expressions, as they come up naturally during the class.

In his book 'The Lexical Approach' Michael Lewis even recommended that teachers INCREASE TTT, but be careful not to go overboard. The best thing to do is plan instructions, vocabulary clarification, and other specific lesson related items to keep such TTT tight, well-chosen, and not long-winded... but open and close classes with genuine conversation, and be happy to throw in personal anecdotes and humour wherever possible.

Catherine, Switzerland
Not all spoken interaction consitutes a conversation. It is vital that students practice the production of structures and vocabulary in a low-risk environment. Monitoring by the teacher who then conducts a correction feedback session is highly important - not least to show the students the value of such interaction. Role plays, question / answer sessions, jigsaw readings etc. are in my view essential components of an EFL lesson. As other teachers have noted, talking to the teacher is very often about 'getting it right', and can be highly stressful for many students. Lets also remember that a huge number of our students need English for communication with other non-native speakers. As Barbara and others have said, variety and balance are key factors.

Steven Tan, Singapore
I am a Singaporean working and also teaching ESL in Iran. I totally agree with Daniela Sparado (Australia) that in most cases of ESL teaching and learning, interaction between teacher and student in a one-on-one basis or in a small group is more effective. We still have to encourage student to student practice but close supervision is necessary.

Deepanjali Mishra, India
I think Daniela is right because practical approach is the best one to learn any language. For example, if I need to learn English I'll definitely learn it much better if I communicate with a person from an English speaking country not by hearing English being spoken. Similarly I agree with Charanjit Singh that we can learn a language better if we have someone interesting in front of us.

Sian Khoury, UAE
Clearly there is a role for both input and output in language learning. Without input, how can learners learn new language? Without output, how can learners practise and "make the language their own?"

If we simply require our students to get into groups and talk, I agree that they are highly unlikely to learn anything new. There must be input in some form or another, typically from the teacher. Plus I actually like talking to my students - and they like it too :).

Barbara Race, France
I always include some pair work or group work in my lessons because speaking is more difficult than listening to many learners. In my class of twelve they can only reply one time in twelve, whereas if they work with a partner they speak alternately (in theory). If the exercise is well prepared for their level, I feel the learners can get far more practice in this way. With my beginner/low intermediate learners, I often supply them with the correct questions and possible appropriate answers. With more advanced learners who are discussing topics, I move from pair to pair, and join in. I am also available to answer questions. Although I listen carefully (noting repeated mistakes or areas of difficulty), I am not silent. As ever, variety and balance and attention to the needs of the class guide the activities I use.

Luke, Thailand
The current popular situation in Asia, as far as I know and especially in Thailand, on ESL methodology for teachers is the native teachers teach conversation and listening and the Thais teach reading writing grammar. This you cannot change so when I come into class and I know that a class is not suited to these activities for many of the reasons already stated and most importantly classroom size (unable to monitor efficiently) and lack of learning of pre taught structures which are key to the lesson, lacking time to revise these structure becoming the problem.

Charanjit Singh, India
Well, it takes me back 20 years or so when I did my Spanish course. We were all given sponsors from the native speakers (opposite sex!). My sponsor was a young Spanish girl and I was speaking Spanish in two days flat!!! The first thing we must realise is that language learning is largely a matter of interest. We learn much faster if we have the right inspiration. Next, please don't dismiss out of hand the traditional methods followed in the classroom. These help to regulate the learning process. You must try to bring in innovations and techniques which facilitate learning. As an English teacher you are as close to a native speaker as your class can get. Most students come with that in mind so it's your duty to make it worth their while.

Marcus Ohar, UK
The problem is that different students learn best in different ways. However, I suggest that student - student communication with the teacher monitoring and giving clues gives learners confidence, allows them to speak more, and helps them retain new language. I agree that it's good to hear native speakers, but without having attended class, would you have been able to understand a single word the Spaniard said? Tell your students to never miss a class unless they're dead, always do their homework and mix with native speakers as much as possible. Do the same as a learner of Spanish and you'll be a star teacher and student!

Sharr, Australia
I totally agree with you Daniela! During my CELTA training, we were all advised to cut TTT...but I felt that it would have been more useful for students to listen to us talk rather than talk among themselves most of the time. They ain't learning fluency during those times. They seem to be making the same mistakes when they talk to their friends. So I wonder what are they learning?? But obviously, we as teachers can't be talking the entire lesson that's why I love to play CDs for them to listen to the varied accents of English Speakers and then conduct a speaking activity where they too can practise.

Jeff Cox, Brazil
I find that my students prefer to hear me speak during class. I asked my upper-intermediate and advanced students for their opinion and they confirmed that the input is great because they really hear how the language is used; they hear the key words and expressions in context. I agree; it provides a vital model for the students to follow. Especially when you consider that they don't spend a lot of time reading or listening on a volunteer basis!

Caroline McGrail, Spain
It's important not to swallow whole everything you're told in ESL teacher-training courses. This year I'm using pair work in several of my classes: Ones with small, motivated groups where students already have a level of English high enough to allow them to enjoy pair work. It's great. They obviously enjoy talking with each other more than they do with me. I get a chance to listen to them and make general observations afterwards to correct common mistakes. But in the classes I taught just after my ESL teacher-training course, it became obvious very quickly that pair work wasn't working: Not all of the students had an adequate level of English, the groups were too big, most students weren't motivated enough to refrain from talking in their own language, the classrooms were cheap and nasty and the echoes created a terrible din. I had to find other activities in a hurry. Now I know more group activities and games for classes where pair work is obviously unsuitable. I use the activities even in classes where pair work is suitable, to give students a break from pair work and get them to practise specific grammar or vocabulary. I just wish I'd known about them earlier. Pair work can be useful, but it certainly isn't the only way to do things.

Sahdia, UK
I believe that if the teacher provides the learners with a clear structure about the task as well as necessary vocabulary, phrases, grammar etc. then the learners gain much more confidence by interacting with one another and trying out their language. The teacher may be silent when the learners are interacting but observation is a good source of formative assessment.

Chris Graham, UK / Mexico
Whilst what you say is true, in the case of most students, they are more likely to feel confidence and to express THEIR thoughts in front of another student. When faced with a teacher, they will firstly feel less confident (especially if the rest of the class is watching them), and probably be trying to say the correct answer (what they think the teacher wants to hear) rather than expressing their opinions or ideas.

Also in an hour long class with 25 students, if the teacher speaks for say half of that time, in conversation with each student by turn, each student will only get to speak for about 1 minute, and they'll probably be bored for the rest of the time.

Mamunur Rahman, Bangladesh
There is no doubt that talking to a native speaker is the best way to learn any L2. Nevertheless, we use some pseudo conversation in our ESL class because we cannot always provide a native speaker with our class. So, it is better to let the students to talk to each other in the target language than not to practice at all.
Submitted on 14 August, 2008 - 12:44

You raise several issues in your letter. Fundamentally they all boil down to the same thing; it is better that your students speak to each other, than to you.  Here are my reasons why:

Firstly, what is important to remember in the case of English, is that it is slightly different from other languages.  That is, there are more non-native speakers of English in the world than native speakers.  The chance of an EFL/ESL student speaking to another non-native speaker of English is higher than the chance of an EFL/ESL student speaking to a native speaker.  For this reason alone, it is better that they practise with other non-native speakers.

Secondly, it isn't pragmatically possible for the teacher to talk to everyone at length.  What would the other students be doing whilst they waited for their turn?

Thirdly, inhibition can often prevent students from getting the best out of a conversation with the teacher.

Fourthly,  connected speech and weak sounds can often cause weaker students a lot of problems.  Whilst it is important that students are aware of these features of spoken language, it isn't always beneficial for them to deal with them in a 'real time' conversation.

Fifthly,  if you are working on issues of fluency it really doesn't matter who students speak to, it is the fact they are speaking which is important.  If you are working on accuracy and/or complexity, then as a teacher, it is easier to monitor degrees of accuracy and complexity by being uninvolved in the conversation.  When involved directly in the conversation you often fail to hear a mistake, or you hear it and then forget it after the next sentence, or worse, you hear it and try to write it down which puts the student off.  

I hope this helps,

Jessica.

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